Scion May Get Version of FT-86; tC, xB Facelifts Coming - Page 2 - Toyota FT-86 Forums

Mr.86 · 01-19-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toyota4life

Nah I'm not gonna change it. I love this name so bad...

BTW, isn't the tC replacement is coming? why do they need another sport car? They should get an SUV and a truck( A-Bat concept).

Yes my guess is they will debut the TC at New York Auto show and maybe Chicago?

I think a small compact truck would be cool

Toyota4life · 01-19-2010, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.86

Yes my guess is they will debut the TC at New York Auto show and maybe Chicago?

I think a small compact truck would be cool

Truck version of xB? make it a small FJ cruiser.

Nemesis · 01-19-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dante

Give me a freakin' break. The average age for Scion buyers is either in the mid 20s (xB, tC) or over 40 (xD). Most people I know who are Scion buyers (including myself, owner of an '05 tC) don't care about what brand it is, as long as it's a good and worthwhile product. I mean, if we were brand-whores we wouldn't be caught dead in a TOYOTA for god's sake. The Toyota that made the original AE-86 and Supra is dead and buried after spending years putting out marginal "sporty" products such as the Celica and MR-S. Now the most sporty thing you can get out of Toyota is the Corolla XRS. Wooohoooo...

But the reason we're here is that we're intrigued with the product itself, not the branding behind it. Call it Scion, call it Toyota, hell call it Lexus for all I care, just get the product right.

To clarify: Scion does not have a performance history OR make the average person think high end or mid grade sports car. The only sports car Scion has ever had is the Tc which only has acceptable power when you get the TRD supercharger. Toyota however has a very rich racing and sports car history that can be revived with something like this. Badging this as a Scion would get the same result Saturn got from it's Sky Redline. An incredible car that never got enough recognition because it was too busy proving itself through a company that had no racing history. Essentially this ended-up watering down a great sports car. If the FT-86 was badged a Toyota, it would bring back the memories of toyota racing and sports car history for anyone in their upper 20's and up, and bring attention to the same for younger buyers who were unaware. If they badge it a Scion, there's no history, there's no depth(no racing pedigree) and there will be a long silence where people question it's authenticity. On top of all of this: toyota keeps comparing this to an old toyota sports car.....I don't think the Scion thing is going to happen, possible, but unlikely.

Nemesis · 01-19-2010, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franisco

This would be dumb; that's all I have to say about it.

You are freak'in hilarious. We always seem to think alike, only you're straight to the point!

dante · 01-20-2010, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

To clarify: Scion does not have a performance history OR make the average person think high end or mid grade sports car. The only sports car Scion has ever had is the Tc which only has acceptable power when you get the TRD supercharger. Toyota however has a very rich racing and sports car history that can be revived with something like this.

Lol. "Rich racing and sports car history?" Maybe to someone like you or I, since we're on this site, but to everyone else? "Toyota" meas generic appliance, and Accord is probably the first (and often the last) car that comes to mind. The last "sports car" was the Supra, last imported to the US in 1998 and primarily known only in its FnF heavily modified form. The "sporty" cars like the Celica and the MR-2 were only adequate in the best of times, and underperformed the competition on more than one occasion. And now they're gone as well. There's no way you can compare Toyota's racing pedigree to someone like Subaru, Citroen or Ford with their WRC championships, Audi with their endurance racing, or even a company like VW that has put out easily tunable (and fast) cars like the GTI for almost 30 years. Face it, to 99% of the population, Toyota is the Maytag of cars. Whether it has a Scion, Toyota, or TRD logo, the FT-86 is going to stand or fall based on it's performance and execution alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Badging this as a Scion would get the same result Saturn got from it's Sky Redline. An incredible car that never got enough recognition because it was too busy proving itself through a company that had no racing history. Essentially this ended-up watering down a great sports car.

No, what killed the Sky Redline was the fact that it was WAY too expensive ($32,000??), especially compared to it's $29,500 sibling. Why would anyone want to pay $2500 more for a car that has a Saturn badge instead of a Pontiac badge? I mean, for all that Pontiac *does* have a racing pedigree, how many Solstice GXPs did they actually sell?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

If the FT-86 was badged a Toyota, it would bring back the memories of toyota racing and sports car history for anyone in their upper 20's and up, and bring attention to the same for younger buyers who were unaware. If they badge it a Scion, there's no history, there's no depth(no racing pedigree) and there will be a long silence where people question it's authenticity. On top of all of this: toyota keeps comparing this to an old toyota sports car.....I don't think the Scion thing is going to happen, possible, but unlikely.

Sorry, but I'm 33 and have drooled over the Supra ever since seeing Alexei Kovalev take off in a blaze of tire smoke after a NY Rangers practice sometime around 1995 and even still I wouldn't give two rat tails for Toyota's "heritage". The "sports" cars that have been around from Toyota in my lifetime could probably be counted on one hand (MR-2, Supra, AE-86, ummmm...). I wouldn't even count the Celica GT-S without *really* widening the scope of "sports cars" as it was barely middle of the pack compared to the Si and GTI, and was far harder to tune than either.

So no, I really don't think that putting the Scion badge on it would harm it any, just as putting the Toyota badge won't bring it any additional prestige. The people who think of Toyota as washing machines will always think of them as washing machines, and the people who think of Scion as a youth-only brand will continue to think that way as well (along with Lexus as the boring old executives car).

Nemesis · 01-20-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dante

Lol. "Rich racing and sports car history?" Maybe to someone like you or I, since we're on this site, but to everyone else? "Toyota" meas generic appliance, and Accord is probably the first (and often the last) car that comes to mind. The last "sports car" was the Supra, last imported to the US in 1998 and primarily known only in its FnF heavily modified form. The "sporty" cars like the Celica and the MR-2 were only adequate in the best of times, and underperformed the competition on more than one occasion. And now they're gone as well. There's no way you can compare Toyota's racing pedigree to someone like Subaru, Citroen or Ford with their WRC championships, Audi with their endurance racing, or even a company like VW that has put out easily tunable (and fast) cars like the GTI for almost 30 years. Face it, to 99% of the population, Toyota is the Maytag of cars. Whether it has a Scion, Toyota, or TRD logo, the FT-86 is going to stand or fall based on it's performance and execution alone.

Here we go.....: I never compared Toyota to Ford or Subaru, all my reasoning came from a comparison of toyota to Scion. Yes, in recent years toyota has not been much more then "cardboard brown" when it comes to looks or performance, but our generation(I am 33 as well, go figure) knew toyota in a different light and todays generation are more likely to go on the internet and educate themselves when they hear about a hot new car that is based off of an old sports car, and then get into the history.

No, what killed the Sky Redline was the fact that it was WAY too expensive ($32,000??), especially compared to it's $29,500 sibling. Why would anyone want to pay $2500 more for a car that has a Saturn badge instead of a Pontiac badge? I mean, for all that Pontiac *does* have a racing pedigree, how many Solstice GXPs did they actually sell?

Actually, I went through this first-hand and bought a sky redline, because the pontiac dealership down the street was asking for 3500 over sticker while Saturn was sticking to their no haggle MSRP purchase. The Solstice was only cheaper when you compared it without the options. They were identical except that the sky could only be purchased with, what were, the options of a fully loaded solstice. I owned the car for 2 years and loved it. It was a scream of a car and got very little recognition because no one saw it as a legit performance vehicle - the solstice suffered the same fate.

Sorry, but I'm 33 and have drooled over the Supra ever since seeing Alexei Kovalev take off in a blaze of tire smoke after a NY Rangers practice sometime around 1995 and even still I wouldn't give two rat tails for Toyota's "heritage". The "sports" cars that have been around from Toyota in my lifetime could probably be counted on one hand (MR-2, Supra, AE-86, ummmm...). I wouldn't even count the Celica GT-S without *really* widening the scope of "sports cars" as it was barely middle of the pack compared to the Si and GTI, and was far harder to tune than either.

Can't disagree that there are few sports cars, but at the same time, all of these vehicles were incedibly significant in their time. Also, toyota has 3 you could remember, scion.......ummmmm...0?
So no, I really don't think that putting the Scion badge on it would harm it any, just as putting the Toyota badge won't bring it any additional prestige. The people who think of Toyota as washing machines will always think of them as washing machines, and the people who think of Scion as a youth-only brand will continue to think that way as well (along with Lexus as the boring old executives car).

My point is fairly straight forward, and it is not based on opinion: Scion has no racing history to even refer to, toyota does.

Toyota4life · 01-20-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

My point is fairly straight forward, and it is not based on opinion: Scion has no racing history to even refer to, toyota does.

Dude, I get your point, but I also have another point. Its originality is Toyota, and it will sell around the world as Toyota, so why they bother changing the badge? Scion will get a new tC soon, so they don't need another sport car. However, Toyota is suffering in lacking of sport car in the lineup. Seriously, I will change the badge, if FT-86 will be a Scion. Or I will end up driving a next gen Lexus IS.

zbirdman777 · 01-20-2010, 08:02 PM

Scion has only been around seven years. Of course it doesn't have much of a history. Especially with no true sports car. But even so, Chris Rado has set numerous FWD records with his tC, and because of people like Ken Gushi and Tanner Foust Scion has become an underdog in the drift world ironically. There's many other driver's out there too racing under Scion to better its name so I think its unfair to cut it down before it gets a chance. Besides Scion is Toyota in my book and I don't care which one it's badged as.

I only hope that if it's marketed as a Scion they don't offer carbon fiber stickers and $75 dollar battery tie downs.

I'm not trying to come across like I know more than everyone else and I don't but it seems like its branding shouldn't matter as long as its a great car.

On another note, it doesn't make sense to me to make a Scion ft86 and a Scion tC, seems like no one would buy a tC if that were the case. Not sure about how that will work out. Even with the ft86 as a Toyota, no one's gonna want a tC, i'm 100% sure the new tC will be inferior to the 86.

[es vi: eks] · 01-20-2010, 10:11 PM

Sounds intresting so you could get a Toyota FT-86, Subaru FT-86, Scion FT-86, Maybe a Lexus FT-86?

Man that would be alot of FT-86s

Toyota4life · 01-20-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [es vi: eks]

Sounds intresting so you could get a Toyota FT-86, Subaru FT-86, Scion FT-86, Maybe a Lexus FT-86?

Man that would be alot of FT-86s

Haha I really wonder.
I want Toyota and Subaru co-develop the Flat 6 for Lexus models. It's really interesting for Luxury division to have a competitive engine.

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01-20-2010, 08:02 PM	#18 (permalink)
zbirdman777 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 22	Scion has only been around seven years. Of course it doesn't have much of a history. Especially with no true sports car. But even so, Chris Rado has set numerous FWD records with his tC, and because of people like Ken Gushi and Tanner Foust Scion has become an underdog in the drift world ironically. There's many other driver's out there too racing under Scion to better its name so I think its unfair to cut it down before it gets a chance. Besides Scion is Toyota in my book and I don't care which one it's badged as. I only hope that if it's marketed as a Scion they don't offer carbon fiber stickers and $75 dollar battery tie downs. I'm not trying to come across like I know more than everyone else and I don't but it seems like its branding shouldn't matter as long as its a great car. On another note, it doesn't make sense to me to make a Scion ft86 and a Scion tC, seems like no one would buy a tC if that were the case. Not sure about how that will work out. Even with the ft86 as a Toyota, no one's gonna want a tC, i'm 100% sure the new tC will be inferior to the 86.

01-20-2010, 10:11 PM	#19 (permalink)
[es vi: eks] Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 64	Sounds intresting so you could get a Toyota FT-86, Subaru FT-86, Scion FT-86, Maybe a Lexus FT-86? Man that would be alot of FT-86s